BH Balanced Hackmons

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor

(thanks Varrio for the banner once again!)​
What is Balanced Hackmons?
Balanced Hackmons (BH) is an Other Meta that allows you to use nearly anything possible that you can battle with in a local battle between players, in the most current cartridge. Conceptually, BH is defined as a sandbox tier where one can use Pokemon to their fullest potential with normal restrictions being removed.

What makes it Balanced?
The removal of abilities, moves or Pokemon that focus the meta only around their use.

Highlights of BH Mechanics:
Here is but a sample of the cool things you can do in BH and nowhere else!
Note: The following is subject to the current banlist. Some mechanics may not be finalized on PS.
  • Use (nearly) any Pokemon, Ability, move and item of your choice! If it's coded in the game, you can use it!
  • Newly to Generation 9, you can use almost all Dexited Pokemon!
  • Make use of Pokemon with maxed out EV's!
Clause and Ban List:
The banlist keeps the "Balanced" in Balanced Hackmons. Here's our banlist for the BH9 Ladder:
:calyrex-shadow: Calyrex-Shadow
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
:diancie-mega: Diancie-Mega
:gengar-mega: Gengar-Mega
:groudon-primal: Groudon-Primal
:kartana: Kartana
:mewtwo-mega-x: Mewtwo-Mega-X
:mewtwo-mega-y: Mewtwo-Mega-Y
:rayquaza-mega: Rayquaza-Mega
:regigigas: Regigigas
:shedinja: Shedinja
:slaking: Slaking
Baton Pass
Belly Drum
Ceaseless Edge
Dire Claw
Electro Shot
Fillet Away
Last Respects
Lumina Crash
Photon Geyser
Quiver Dance
Rage Fist
Revival Blessing
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Tail Glow
Arena Trap
Gorilla Tactics
Hadron Engine
Huge Power
Innards Out
Liquid Ooze
Magnet Pull
Neutralizing Gas
Orichalcum Pulse
Parental Bond
Poison Heal
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard
  • OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned (i.e. Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Sheer Cold)
  • Evasion Clause: Evasion abilities, items, and moves are banned (e.g. Sand Veil, Bright Powder, Double Team)
  • Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon. (e.g. you cannot use both Arceus-Ghost and Arceus-Fairy on the same team)
  • HP Percentage Mod: HP is shown in percentages
  • Sleep Moves Clause: Sleep-inducing moves are banned. This excludes self-inflicted sleep.
  • Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned
  • Terastal Clause: Pokemon cannot Terastallize
  • Reveal Clause: Pokemon have the correct sprites in battle and on the UI.
Sunsteel Strike
Moongeist Beam
Salt Cure
Take Heart
None at the minute.
None at the minute.
Nov 18, 2022[Gen 9] Balanced Hackmons goes live on Pokemon Showdown! Initial banlist decision
Nov 21, 2022Rage Fist and Shell Smash quickbanned
Nov 23, 2022Shed Tail quickbanned
Nov 30, 2022Belly Drum and Last Respects quickbanned
Dec 4, 2022Contrary, Revival Blessing, Calyrex-Shadow, and Slaking quickbanned
Dec 20, 2022Moody quickbanned. Poison Heal suspected
Jan 9, 2023Poison Heal banned via suspect test
Jan 10, 2023Slaking unbanned
Feb 27, 2023Terastal Clause suspected
Mar 14, 2023Terastal Clause suspect results in DNB. Quiver Dance and Zacian-Crowned quickbanned
April 2, 2023Gorilla Tactics quickbanned
April 18, 2023Orichalcum Pulse and Miraidon quickbanned
April 24, 2023Ceaseless Edge quickbanned
May 21, 2023Slaking and Comatose quickbanned
June 25, 2023Baton Pass quickbanned
July 24, 2023Terastallizing, Imprison, Substitute, Hadron Engine quickbanned. Miraidon and Gorilla Tactics unbanned.
August 1, 2023Dex changes are implemented, allowing virtually all Pokemon into BH. Dire Claw and Gorilla Tactics quickbanned.
August 6, 2023Mega Gengar quickbanned
August 15, 2023Mega Mewtwo Y quickbanned
August 24, 2023Deoxys-Attack quickbanned
September 8, 2023Protean/Libero quickbanned, Deoxys-Attack unbanned
September 16, 2023Tail Glow quickbanned
September 24, 2023Mortal Spin suspected
October 11, 2023Mortal Spin remains legal following suspect test
October 19, 2023Fillet Away quickbanned
October 31, 2023Lumina Crash quickbanned
December 18, 2023Kartana, Photon Geyser, Electro Shot quickbanned
December 28, 2023Mega Mewtwo X and Deoxys-Attack quickbanned
January 12, 2024Mega Diancie suspected
January 30, 2024Mega Diancie banned via suspect test
February 5, 2024Liquid Ooze quickbanned
Important Links:
Previous Gen(s):
[Gen 8] Balanced Hackmons
Balanced Hackmons Old Gens Hub

:gengar-mega: augustakira
:kyogre-primal: Chessking345
:sinistea: Tea Guzzler (Tier Leader)
:Registeel: TTTech
:palafin: Quantum Tesseract
Last edited:

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Balanced Hackmons: a brief primer
  • Balanced Hackmons allows for the use of any legal move, ability, and forme in the game. This allows the player to additionally use Unreleased items and Pokemon.
    • This does include almost all Pokemon that are normally unobtainable, like Mega Pokemon, Ash-Greninja, Ultra Necrozma, and the like.
    • This does not include things that either aren't in the game (like Z-moves and Mega Stones) or are non-functional (moves like Pursuit and Spectral Thief).
  • Balanced Hackmons still sticks to in-game mechanics. This means Pokemon can only have 4 moveslots, 1 ability, and 1 item, and base stats can't be modified.
  • Balanced Hackmons removes the 510 EV limit, meaning 252 EVs can be used in all stats, although the 252 EV cap per stat is still present. You also don't have to use 252 EVs if you don't want to (slow pivots usually run 0 Speed, for example).
  • Subject to the banlist, Pokemon with an out-of-battle forme change can start the battle in said forme. This allows for things like Multitype-less Arceus-Ghost and Pre-Mega'd Pokemon.
  • Forme-changing abilities are hard-coded to work with the original Pokemon only, meaning they won't have any effect when used by another Pokemon. This includes abilities like Disguise and Multitype.
  • Some moves, like Hyperspace Fury, can only be used by specific Pokemon (or something Transformed into it).
  • Arceus formes, as stated above, can be accessed without the need for Multitype + Plate.
    • Arceus-Ghost without Multitype (holding any item, including the wrong Plate) will remain as Arceus-Ghost.
    • Arceus-Ghost with Multitype and a held Plate becomes the corresponding Arceus forme (works as normal).
    • Arceus-Ghost with Multitype and no held plate becomes Arceus-Normal.
  • Items, including species-specific items like Light Ball and Eviolite, retain their effects after the holder Transforms. The only exceptions are Ditto's items, which are hard-coded to turn off when Ditto is Transformed.
Balanced Hackmons: a brief FAQ
Q: Why isn't Imposter banned?
A: Imposter from HP-behemoths like Chansey and Blissey give them immense bulk, especially given the former has access to Eviolite (there's a whole article about it). Imposter is necessary to keep offensive menaces in check, as Imposter simply existing dissuades the use of extremely stupid stuff due to the fact that they have to be Imposter-proofed, and Imposter also limits absurdly bulky teams with its potentially infinite longevity threatening to outlast the opposition. Imposter-proofing (or Improofing) is a catch-all term for counterplay that can be used against Imposter, and as you're in complete control of what the Imposter use can do, there are a wide array of possibilities here. Denying the Imposter user recovery, blocking its utility, out-damaging it, using specific items like Plates, trapping it, sponging its hits with a teammate, or even taking advantage of its limited 20PP are all viable options.

Q: Why isn't Normalize banned?
A: Entrainment or Skill Swap + Normalize from fast Ghost-types like Dragapult and Flutter Mane can remove the option to directly damage them. Normalize users typically run either utility sets with moves like Spikes or trapping sets with Block and/or Taunt. Status moves, Plate + Judgment, Revelation Dance, Ability Shield, Magic Bounce, Good as Gold, priority, and making use of the fact that they probably aren't actually doing any damage are all viable counterplay and largely remove any potential greivances with the strategy.

Q: Why am I seeing Mega Pokemon?
A: On cartridge, you're able to hack in virtually all cut Pokemon and use them in a local battle, which fits the definition of BH; therefore, they're usable.

Q: Why does my Xerneas revert to Fairy Aura when I send it out?
Most Pokemon with in-battle forme changes that aren't tied to an item will revert back to their base forme upon launching the game and attempting to start a battle. Since BH sticks to cartridge mechanics (which is why all of the Dexited Pokemon are allowed; see this thread), this means these formes can't be used with a custom ability.

Q: Where can I find more information?
A: The Central Resources Thread has many useful tools like Speed tiers, the Viability Rankings, and links to various other resources like the Setpedia or written articles. BH also has its own room in the Other Metagames Discord, and discussion can be had in the Other Metas room on Pokemon Showdown. You can obviously just use this thread as well.
Last edited:

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Sample Teams
Last updated 27th December 2023

None for the minute.

Past Samples:
Giant-Crusher by Tea Guzzler
[Hyper Offense - Mold Breaker Kartana + Dual Screens Mega Slowbro]
Usage tips: As tempting as it is to lead Slowbro every game, it's often not the best use of your time, both in terms of counterleading your opponent and in terms of screens' actual value in that game. In games with a suspected Simple Ghost on the other side, preserve Yveltal's HP in order to snipe it with Wicked Blow. Kartana's best used when Imposter is paralyzed or absent, as this leaves it with essentially zero counters besides repeated sacks to get V-create drops. Gunk Shot Arceus-Ghost allows it to snipe MAudino and Arceus-Fairy without any necessary team support.
Weaknesses: Fur Coat Dondozo, despite being otherwise awful, puts a major dent in this team's progress-making ability, as Kartana lacks a Grass move. Rock move Diancie can put you in a dodgy position if you don't have any screens up. Yveltal's Imposter-proof is Diancie, which doesn't have recovery, so this will in most likelihood go down on the third time Imposter copies Yveltal. Fur Coat Miraidon can be inconvenient to get progress against if Diancie's not very healthy.
Effectiveness: Went 28-4 on suspect ladder, has remained strong in private games.

Big Stall by Don Bozo
[Stall - Primordial Sea Registeel + Ice Scales Arceus-Poison]
Usage Tips: spam knock off, Stone axe and mortal spin. Scout for coverage. Use enemy mmx to sweep once their team is crippled.

Weaknesses: Well-Baked Body Celesteela, No Guard Eternatus-Eternamax with Sheer Cold.

Effectiveness: 29-4 on suspect, lost twice to Hoopa, once to WBB celesteela with hazards, once with previous version. Reached 1630 easily with no losses from 1450 Reached 1550 on 2 other alts easily as well.

Murder in My Mind by rightclicker
[Hyper Offense - Double No Retreat Ghosts + Speed Boost Palkia-O]

Mixed Psychic Surge Deoxys-Attack is able to break through most defensive cores given minor chip (which if you see the billion other offensive mons, it’s easily achievable with how many checks they share). Deoxys-Attack also provides natural speed control as the second fastest (viable) mon in the meta. Psychic Terrain provides priority insurance for Speed Boost Palkia-O and Destiny Bond cheese, anti-Prankster Parting Shot for Ghostceus and Lunala, and jacks up Lunala’s boosted Stored Powers to absolutely stupid levels. Lunala can click Final Gambit on Ice Scales Arceus, or Yveltal so either the dragons or Ghostceus breaks through. Ting-Lu improofs Deoxys-Attack, has basic hazard control and provides a secondary Prankster immune if you wanna play safer. The rest improofs themselves through Plates.
As expected with HO, play aggressively. Like, really aggressively. One wrong predict could lose you the game, but a correct one can swing the tide into a win. I usually lead Deoxys-Attack -> Ting-Lu Teleport but Ghostceus leads can surprise your opponent too.


- Sticky Webs: Funnily enough, this entire team falls to Sticky Webs if Ting-Lu can’t remove them. Your ghosts are suddenly slower than everything and their mothers even boosted, Deoxys-Attack fails to serve as proper speed control, and Palkia-O/Eternatus can simply be Boomburst’d to death by Mega Diancie.

- The improof for Spooky Plate Imposter is really, really sus (you’d essentially have to trade your Ghostceus/Lunala and one of your Pranksters to maybe get rid of it) but that set’s incredibly uncommon so it’s probably fine.

- Mega Diancie: You have no true check here. It’s either saccing wars between your Deoxys and their Diancie, or a “will you take the dbond bait or will you simply switch out” gambling simulator.

Other Options:

- V-Create > Headlong Rush is an option on Deoxys-Attack to immediately 2HKO Mega Steelix, but the improofing becomes rather difficult afterwards. Collision Course is also an option here. (improof with Aegislash)

- Nasty Plot > Torch Song and Armor Cannon > Sludge Wave on Eternatus trades off it’s ability to threaten Mega Diancie (without sacrificing itself) and Fairyceus (immediately) for much more immediate firepower. You can also scrap the set entirely and settle for a NP + 3A Moldy set instead, but I’ve found 1 Prankbonder to not be enough most of the time.

- Desolate Land Reshiram could work over Palkia-O, but it makes the team a bit slower in the speed department (and also I haven’t tested it)

Setup Mega Garchomp Balance by Chessking345
[Balance - Shift Gear Mega Garchomp + Wide Lens Mega Diancie]
Team Description -
Mega Garchomp is crazy and has the potential to just roll over teams with one SG, and it gets numerous setup opportunities thanks to typing and raw power. 9 Def IVs ensure that Eviolite Imposter is OHKOed after boost, and if Deo-A isn’t too big of an issue then Tidy is also an option. Blades is also a potential option over Headlong for PP and no defense drops. Jungle provides a small amount of recovery to offset chip and LO recoil while making it a solid switch in into standard Miraidon. Chomp has some issues against FC Fairyceus and Ghostceus, making Scales Nihilego an excellent partner by semi sapblocking while also checking Diancie variants and providing a slow pivot. Nihilego’s low defense and ground weakness works well here by allowing Chomp to improof. Pop Bomb Diancie is another strong breaker that takes advantage of FC Yveltal teams, with Pop Bomb achieving feats like 2HKOing Ho-Oh and putting non FC Arc into Espeed range. Chomp helps against FC Poisonceus teams. Helmet Nihilego improofs Diancie. Fur Coat Yveltal improofs Chomp and does normal Yveltal things like checking Kartana, mixed MMX and Ghostceus. Ice Scales Waterceus is an unconventional pick but the Arceus slot is open and Waterceus’s significantly higher physical bulk compared to Primal Kyogre means it can do stuff like check Diancie and sponge Kyu-B Glacial and Kartana Gigaton. The moveset also can allow it to be very notorious for teams to deal with effectively. Doubling on Ice Scales is mostly for security considering Nihilego’s inconsistency but if feeling creative there are a myriad of abilities that can work here to adjust matchups.

Usage -
General gameplan with the team is to rely on the two powerful breakers to punch holes in opposing team, while keeping in mind of opportunities for a Chomp sweep. Nihilego is the teams only source of pivoting but keeping its Rocky Helmet intact is also crucial for improofing Diancie, so aggressive switching and predicts are highly useful. Garchomp itself can hard switch into many mons (provided no Knock Off) and can be played aggressively. Yveltal’s health should be kept reasonably high to ensure it can Improof Chomp. Use Waterceus as the primary Knock Off absorber, and depending on the matchup consider any other mon that can take Knock Off.

Threats -
Salt Cure can be annoying to deal with considering 0 cloak or Magic Guard users, and it prevents Waterceus from going out of control. Play around this using Teleport Nihilego, Imposter, and Chomp
Take Heart FC Ghostceus isn’t too bad by itself but can be annoying for Yveltal to remove hazards against, pressure hard with Yveltal and Garchomp and limit sap healing with Nihilego. Tidy Up on Chomp helps.
Mold Breaker sets from MMX and Kartana threaten to do massive damage against Yveltal. Imposter is useful to midground both and Waterceus can sponge Kartana Gigaton. Ability Shield Yveltal is not recommended but can be used.
Eternatus is threat since it outspeeds everything and muscles through Scales with Moldy. Keeping Dragon Energy power low is incredibly useful and Diancie can also soft check. Changing Nihilego to Sand Stream (and all recover clones to Shore Up, but not Sap!) can help against it.
Celesteela can soft check (or hard check with the rare Fur Coat) Garchomp and can’t really be limited by Nihilego. Luckily it can’t run every ability at once and has limited bulk, making it possible to be chipped down by Glaive Rush and pressured by Diancie.
Cloak Imposter walls Waterceus, try to Knock it, not a huge issue since Chansey Improofs and Block is unaffected by Cloak. Can change Shackle to Block if seeing a significant amount of Cloak Imposter.

Effectiveness -
This team won one game in Money Tour (albeit not the best showing) and I want to say could’ve won another if I cut Chomp defense. Afaik some players like Poliwag has been trying it on ladder to decent success.

Daytime Guest Stars by augustakira
[Balance - Magic Guard Miraidon + Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo X]
Strengths: MMX has very few checks, Miraidon is exellent into passive stall sets, Ting Lu is able to completely shut down many common defensive mons. You usually have a good way to make progress no matter what.
Weaknesses: Electric/Fairy coverage (notably TH Arc-Fairy), Regen Lunala (nearly impossible to get progress against), Dragon move Miraidon
Ting Lu's Improofing is shaky but hasn't been an issue in the games I've played.
Effectiveness: Beat Sevag in OMWC, peaked ladder from ~1600 to 1752 with this team, went 25-0 on an alt in low ladder so it's pretty resistant to cheese / random attackers.

Earthshaker Balance by Tea Guzzler
[Balance - Sword of Ruin Kyurem-Black + Double Teleport]
Usage tips: Magic Bounce Ho-Oh stifles most Strength Sap users that Kyurem-B isn't instantly punching through, namely Arceus formes, with multiple Teleports to give Kyurem-B as much airtime as possible. Dialga-O has 1 lower Speed than Ho-Oh to guarantee a slower Teleport than Imposter users, and with Adamant Crystal, it fully Imposter-proofs Ho-Oh and provides a fairly easy Miraidon switch-in that can grab momentum off of it switching. Fleur/Gigaton MMX provides an option to pick off annoying mons like Arceus-Fairy and Miraidon, but Freezing Glare over Fleur is feasible here to completely lock off Arceus-Poison (and is Improofed with a Bouncer, so Imp can't safely switch in and tank).
Weaknesses: SNR Arceus-Ghost is the main problem, as nothing on this team has Haze and the Arceus set can't really handle it all that well, so the best resolution would likely to go with Ice Scales + Haze Arceus-Fairy; the main plan against it is to out-position and win faster, but something like Astral Barrage MMX can also help in this regard. Revelation Dance + Choice Specs Diancie is also quite annoying to deal with thanks to how fast Arceus gets worn down from it and with Ho-Oh non-functional, so out-positioning it is very much the best option against it, as the Arceus slot needs to be hazard removal and no other removal Arceus really works all that well. Opposing Mega Garchomp and Kyurem-B are in a similar boat, but they don't get a lot of safe switchin opportunities and MMX / Arceus can take one hit from full with Sap.
Effectiveness: Has consistently performed well in private games and on ladder.

Classic Psy-Fai by Nihilslave
[Balance - Psychic Surge Deoxys-A + Choice Specs Mega Diancie]
Usage tips:
:deoxys-attack:: Expanding Force for breaking power and Volt Tackle to synergize with MDiancie. The other two moves depends. Remember to make sure you always OHKO Imposter. Improofed by Yveltal.
:diancie-mega:: You just click Boomburst and kill everything...... SpD EVs is such that you 2HKO Imposter, can go without. Improofed by Arceus-Poison.
:chansey:: It's Chansey. It improofs some and forces some to improof.
:arceus-poison:: Wall #1. Change Mortal Spin for Toxic if you like. Soft self-improofed or improofed by Chansey.
:yveltal:: Wall #2. It's both a Physical wall for all and a Special wall for Ghost-Types. Best improofed by Chansey.
:dialga-origin:: Anti-Setup utility. Give it no recovery to make sure Imposter never heals.
Weaknesses: Team is very consistent if u don't encounter a cteam. However sap-block teams can be an issue since the only recovery Move used is Strength Sap.
Effectiveness: Used it in 3 tour games and won all.
Flame Orb Balance by Chessking345
[Balance - Flare Boost Flutter Mane]
:ting-lu::zacian::groudon::arceus-water::flutter mane::chansey:
Flutter Mane is very strong at breaking teams apart. Waterceus provides a supportive wincon, Strength Sap here is more or less fine since you can Toxic Chansey, making it just lose to Flutter Mane, and Flutter can act as a secondary Knock/Status absorber. Water is the Arc-type here to provide a Orichalcum Pulse check, Tera Ground is for Dialga-O. Groudon rounds off the dual FC core, provides hazard control, and also spreads some Toxic and another potential wincon. Regen Ting-Lu is a good scouting tool and midground pivot. It + Scales Zacian form a pretty resilient SpD core with Ting scouting choice locks. Ting-Lu also provides lots of utility options.
Ting-Lu gets to Knock Imposter and then can be soft improofed by Groudon Waterceus or Flutter Mane. Zacian is self-improof, Chansey and Groudon can help if its Cloak or Normal/Ghost Tera Imp (not Chansey for Ghost Tera). Groudon improofed by Waterceus. Waterceus improofed by Chansey. Flutter Mane improofed by Zacian and Chansey (Zacian limits Pain Split from Imposter, Chansey is safer).
Some notable other options here are Tera types (notably Flutter Mane), item on Zacian (Ability Shield gives a much better Normalize counterplay, would recommend if expecting), item on Groudon (HDB here gives security against stuff like Koraidon spikes up) feel free to play around with those.

Some weaknesses include Speed Boost Palk-O (win before Zacian loses), Normalize Taunt (use AShield), physical breakers with Grass coverage (change Tera type on Groudon and use Imposter), opposing Scales Zac (try to win long game), stuff that RK Flutter (i.e. mainly Bundle, Pult, and -ateSpeed, can play with Tera type to try to nab a surprise kill, getting Knocked is also very good into Pult).

I Need to Start a Garden by XxLazzerpenguinxX
[Offense - Specs Rayquaza + Psychic Surge Mewtwo]
How to use: To be successful with this team, you must try and stay on the front foot as best as possible. Early game, I would generally scout for Chansey, and try and put yourself in a good position by using Arceus' calm mind to force in passive pokemon. I would then look for positions where Mewtwo can come in for free. The idea with Mewtwo is that sure, Regenvest Dialga-O and Ting Lu hard wall it, but with Koff, you're able to effectively cripple them, as Rayquaza will have opportunities later in the game to 2hko them using Boomburst. You also totally cripple any Chansey (imp and non imp, and do like 20% w/ u-turn). Landorus serves as the primary physical attacker, with not many pokemon able to wall it effectively. Groudon, being one of the most effective rarely has great moves to hit it, as it'll usually just be toxic - while also just letting in Rayquaza for free if you can afford it also being toxic's or making a good read on recovery. Zacian serves as additionally speed control, while also leveraging court change for some hazard control. Additionally, with ceaseless edge no longer in the game, bounce is much stronger (underratedly blocking strength sap too).

Espeed on Rayquaza might be a little finnicky with Psychic Surge mewtwo, but it can come in clutch situationally vs. Koraidon.
With all the Parting Shot passive prankster pokemon around, future sight Mewtwo can strike with devastating effect.

Some move options for the team:
Arceus Water - EP => Aromatherapy / filler
Zacian - Nuzzle => Glare

Other Options:
Some move options for the team:
Arceus Water - EP => Aromatherapy / filler
Zacian - Nuzzle => Glare
Mewtwo - Tera Fairy => Tera Psychic
Rayquaza - Tera Steel => Tera Flying

If you're feeling adventurous, Landorus-Therian can be swapped for Desolate Land Zacian, and you can add any other pokemon to the team, Palkia-Origin comes to mind as being especially dangerous.

The speed control is admittedly so, a little finnicky as Koraidon is able to outspeed everyone. Zacian helps out with this, but it can get rocked by a gigaton hammer.
Physical attackers are also in general hard to deal with, really relying on Arceus-Water and Imposter here, but the goal of the team should be to try and prevent them from coming in as much as possible. Additionally, all of the tera types add some defensive typing to the offensive guys, allowing them to tank a hit, and retaliate with an OHKO.
Ice Scales Dialga-O can be a huge pain for this team, relying on just headlong rush Rayquaza catching it by surprise.
Annoying regen stone axe loops can get annoying if you need rocks off.
It has imposter, its gotta be at least decent on ladder
I beat TTTech, Quojova & Onyx with the team
It's pretty fun to use, and one of the few really aggressive teams I've seen in gen9bh, and takes advantage of the repetitive structures that gen9bh has fallen into

Disco Light by augustakira
[Balance - Simple No Retreat Arceus-Ghost + Good As Gold Zamazenta]

Heart and Beat by augustakira
[Balance - Band Koraidon + Flame Orb Flutter Mane]
Life's Epilogue by Onyx Onix 7
[Hyper Offense - Orichalcum Pulse + Prankster Destiny Bond Spam]

The following team is a hyper-offense build I that was accepted as a sample for the last round of sample submissions with some adaptations and optimizations for the current meta . The team is built around powerful mixed attackers like Arceus Grass and Rayquza to shatter most defensive cores and suicide Destiny Bond users to quickly restrict offensive counterplay options. Choice Band Zacian and Coalossal round out the rest of the build by offering some form of a defensive backbone and the ability to revenge-kill fast threats like Miriadon and Palkia.

Opimizations over pervious iteration:

1. Since Zacian-Crowned and Quiver Dance are banned there isn't a need for a Choice Scarf Revenge Killer anymore. Band Zacian with Orchalcium Pulse is sufficient in terms of power and speed to come in and threaten out most faster threats.
2. Since Knock-Off and Population Bomb have seen a surge in usage Carkol is replaced with Rocky Helmet Coalassol for more reliablity.
3. Arceus's Plated set is replaced with a life Orb Set to counter the rise in Neutral Fur Coat users like Fur Coat Arceus Ghost

Tips on how to play:

* Zacian is typically the best lead and midground due to its ability to scare out offensive pokemon and force in exploitable walls
* Save Tera-Fire for Arceus grass so it can 1 v 1 Imposter Chansey and so it has its Fire STAB
* Rayquaza, Arceus, and Zacian are Imposter Proofed by Coalossal
* Against bulky Calm Mind Pokemon Eternatus usually can win the 1 v 1 with the combination of Destiny bond and its ability to crit through Calm Mind boosts


* Fur Coat Arceus Fire can be tricky to break through for this team
* Bulky Victory Dance users can sweep the team if one isn't careful to preserve Groudon or Eternatus
* Random Flip Turns
* Primordial Sea Corviknight


The team is just as if not more effective than the prior iteration since many threats to the team like Zacian-C and Quiver Dance were removed, while the Hyper Offense build still has all of its tools to wreck havoc on opposing teams.

Electro-Spective Kyoto by augustakira
[Bulky Offense - Orichalcum Pulse Calyrex-Ice + Hadron Engine Miraidon]
Generally puts a ton of pressure on opposing teams. You'll need to use Tera wisely to handle opposing threats, the team is generally frail but should hold up well enough to win quickly through agressive play. I think the fact that you can't build a reasonable defensive core with 3 slots says a lot about how many threats there are right now.
Caly-I and Miraidon are the two mons that can reasonably nail OHKOs on targets like FC Arceus, nothing walls both of them and Miraidon forces in things that Calyrex feasts on, so you may need to learn to take risks like hard switching to Calyrex when Mirai brings in a Ground-Type.
Arc-Ground handles opposing Miraidon and can make use of Tera to check Ground coverage Enamorus and Palkia, albeit these are softer checks.
Zacian handles GT mons and sets spikes, it can also scare out Korai/Miraidon and bring in your breakers with Parting Shot.
Corviknight and Imposter are setup control and check pop bomb users like Slaking.

Weaknesses: Opposing Corviknight, Teams that have strong defense with Palkia as a wincon, Enamorus with V-Create + Grounds/Koraidon.

Feel free to fiddle around with the Tera types to make the team work however is best for you. Apparently certain people are using Primsea which is not viable but if that's a concern swap Solar Blade for Power Whip on Calyrex, trading accuracy and a little power for not getting Cteamed is probably good.

Snakes and Ladders by Tea Guzzler
[Balance - Magic Guard Slaking + Mold Breaker Groudon]
How to use: Groudon is extremely effective at breaking down walls and forcing Toxic on opponents, both of which make sweeping with Slaking easier. Spreading Toxic with Groudon early on is generally the best way to go, damage-dealing becomes a priority later on when you can Tera Ground to OHKO Arceus after slight chip, and any Ability Shield Eternatus has been Knocked by Slaking (who's generally a side wincon). Corviknight improofs Groudon and Enamorus, Spikes is so it isn't total fodder for RegenVest Ting-Lu and so you don't miss Ceaseless. Arceus-Ghost is a generic Fur Coat user, can be realistically any Arceus but I fancied Nasty Plot Arc-Ghost and also wanted Knock Off to harass AV users and reduce the need for Enamorus to Tera. Enamorus is a wallbreaker first and backup hazard removal second, Enam with Spin up doesn't really have any switch-in other than Tera Fire stuff and go to RegenVest -> go Imposter on predicted Headlong. Chansey is a passive blob of bulk whose sole purpose is to never die, though you need to actually predict around Miraidon Volt Switch if Spikes are up.

Other Options: As said above, basically any Fur Coat Arceus can work. Arceus-Water is probably the most defensive and most effective at not dying but also the most fodder for Imposter and most passive, Arc-Fairy and Arc-Fire are options that lean more towards offense / defense respectively.

  • :hoopa-unbound: Wicked Blow spammers like Hoopa-U and Sniper Palafin are just a symptom of running one Fur Coat user weak to Dark. Not a lot that can really be done about this without changing Arceus type or making it Tera Dragon or something.
  • :arceus::spooky plate: SNR Arceus-Ghost is an issue mostly on the back of Corviknight not being the bulkiest Prankster user (however it is necessary to Imposter-proof Groudon). Cycling Parting Shot and/or spamming Sap as Slaking is usually sufficient.
  • :corviknight: Nullifies Groudon. Nothing can be done to fix this as Corviknight is generally not a primary wall, so you can't easily use a teammate to dispatch it, although if they have no Enamorus check then you can PP stall Recover by just spamming Boomburst.

Double Band by quojova
[Bulky Offense - Banded Sword of Ruin Koraidon + Slaking]

FC Arc-Poison by quojova
[Balance - Sword of Ruin Koraidon + Fur Coat Arceus-Poison]
Hell on Earth by Tea Guzzler
[Offense - Tough Claws Hoopa-Unbound + Mixed Enamorus]
How to use: Hoopa is your main sweeping threat and you should aim to get it in as much as possible. Zacian-C and Groudon both aim to help soften physical walls that Hoopa struggles with, such as opposing Arceus-Fire, with both helping limit offensive threats in the process. Arceus-Fire, Dondozo and Groudon fill the defensive slots, with Enamorus in the back as secondary hazard control and additional wallbreaking potential.
Other options:
  • :hoopa-unbound: Lonely ensures you can outspeed +1 neutral-natured Arceus after Shift Gear, but if this isn't a concern then Brave works. Tera Fire also allows you to set up in front of Pixilate + Extreme Speed users.
  • :arceus: Torch Song lacks the burn but can bypass Zacian-C's Substitute.
  • :zacian-crowned: If Gorilla Tactics isn't your thing, other damaging sets like Sword of Ruin or Ruination/Taunt can also work.
  • :groudon: Ground-types are naturally trouble since the Fur Coat wall is a Fire-type, so using Dondozo as a semi-replacement can work.
  • :palkia: Tera your Groudon and cope with Water Spout, or try to out-offense it with Zacian.
How Effective: See the RMT here. Has been brought to BH No Johns 3 times and hasn't lost, also beats good players.

Corner Store by augustakira
[Balance - Simple No Retreat Arceus-Ghost + Choice Specs Miraidon]
How to use: Make progress with arceus-ghost, once the team is softened, hard reads with miraidon can usually clean up. Zacian confusehax and status from dondozo and clodsire can force situations where ghostceus can set up without fear of status, but it can generally perform even if burned or paralysed.
Weaknesses: PH taunt qd mons that dondozo can't handle (especially ghostceus), generally you can try and power through these with your ghostceus or with zacian but it can end up pretty matchup fishy with what PH sets can beat what teams. Try swapping around clod and dondo's phazing moves if need be.
Effectiveness: Got to top 5 on ladder pretty easily, won several games against reputed players.

The Scare Bear by Tea Guzzler
[Offense - Gorilla Tactics Ursaluna + Headlong Rush Enamorus]
How to Use: This team has 2 primary ways to win - either through QD Arceus-Ghost (supported by Headlong Rush Enamorus, which removes all common special walls with relative ease), or through GT Ursaluna (supported by Ruination Zacian-C, who tears through Fur Coat users' Recover PP and removes Rocky Helmets). Arceus-Ghost, Dialga-O, and Dondozo fill out a standard FurScalesPrank core. Playing defensive early is usually the best bet, since most of the attackers enjoy being slow pivoted in and don't appreciate a surprise Glare or Nuzzle, so early scouting is recommended unless it's clear that they probably autolose to Arceus. Once stuff is scouted and you know what the main objective is (ie. you've identified which wincons you want to pursue, which can easily be both), the team excels at creating very high pressure in a very short time window, which you can keep applying until you break through.

Other Options:
  • :palkia: The team has an alternative version with some slight changes, namely swapping Ursaluna for QD Beads Palkia and making Dialga-O Ice Scales over RegenVest. This version focuses almost entirely on special wallbreaking, although is less consistent in Imposter-proofing (even with Scales Dialga-O, Palkia-O just does so much damage) and gives up Ursaluna's massively strong Extreme Speed. Here it is.
  • :thundurus: Enamorus is aggressive hazard control, however is frail as a result - nothing else can really perform the role it does, although if you're intent on playing a slower game, fitting this slot with bulkier hazard removal (like Tidy Up) can work.
  • :zacian-crowned: Headlong Rush Enamorus + Earth Eater Zacian-C is the general setup, however V-create Enamorus + Well-Baked Body Zacian-C also works. Trades lower killing power for better utility against stuff like Arceus-Fire.
Effectiveness: Won with it in ghosting tour, consistently beats good players and has few exploitable weaknesses.

  • :arceus::spooky plate::flutter mane: Normalize is annoying but generally not a game ender, getting them Glared and pivoting to Zacian (to knock Flutter's plate) or Arceus (to QD faster than opposing Arceus) works best.
  • :palkia: No team has long-term answers to this (without fringe stuff like DesLand Zacian-C), here it's no different. Playing aggressive is best, Ursaluna's Extreme Speed can pick it off from moderate HP / Tera Normal ESpeed is 62.5% to just OHKO.
  • :miraidon: Similar story to the above, but you have switching options with Ursaluna / Zacian-C and the threatening sets don't boost Speed (so Zacian-C can always chase them out). Tera Ground Enamorus also just default dances on people that don't know the set.
The Infernals by tzaur
[Balance - Double Fur Coat]
How to use: Straightforward game plan. Just play well. Scout via Ting-Lu and Imposter and start finding some openings with Eternatus or Ghostceus. Cover most of the physical attackers defensively—especially Ghostceus since it interacts so little both defensively and offensively with the type chart. Etern is cool 'cause even if you don't even Tera, it punishes people who send in their Zacian thinking they'll KO it from full-ish with HR. Especially at +2. Zacian-C is a cool midgame breaker. Toxic + taking hazard chip wears down Dondozo pretty easily (Salt Cure also probably works here if you want more immediate chip, but Fireceus becomes more annoying, so I don't love it). Kiiiiiiiiinda have to out-finesse Imposter if it comes in on Don or Ting, but I had little to no problems doing that. Straight-up dogwalks most fat/stall builds.
Weaknesses: GTactics Don if you don't opt for Tera Flying on Eternatus. Fuck that mon. Mostly went Tera Steel when I laddered, and it obliterated most of the team; only reason I still won was cause for some strange reason my opponent closed their eyes and clicked a button missing their game-winning play when my paralysed Ghostceus was the last mon standing and was well within KO range of their last Headlong Rush lmao.
-ate Boomburst anything can be an issue since nothing reliably switches in on it. Especially random Aerilates with Specs or Metronome. Terastallize Poison Ting-Lu immediately to handle Pixiburst Fairyceus, Flutter, and Iron V. If/when PH gets banned, you can easily go Eviolite > T-Orb on Imposter to further ease this MU.
QD Miraidon of any breed. Struggled a lot vs. these. A well-played Tera Dragon Specs can also be a huge nuisance.
PH Fairyceus with Steel/Fire Tera can also be a nuisance. Will hopefully no longer being an issue after the current suspect. If it sticks around, you can opt for Tera Ground on the Don.
Effectiveness: I'm very, very terrible at saving replays, so I unfortunately don't have any. All I really have is 25-0 on first try on PH suspect with minimal effort aside from Onyx. Even though I was just shy of 1500s ELO by the time I finished, I believe the GXE was only surpassed by the top 2 in rank at the time, CHISIRYO and Quantum Tesseract.

[Bulky Offense - Toxic Spam + Magic Guard Slaking]
How to use: Play defensively, focus on getting Toxic off on as many mons as possible until you can safely bring in Slaking. Slaking should exclusively be used in endgame as a cleaner unless you can ensure it won't get easily checked. The other 5 mons, specifically Imposter, should focus on annoying the opponent's team through any means necessary until Slaking can clean or break if given the opportunity. Imposter should scout and Eternatus and Arceus-Fire should be used to maintain offensive pressure on the opponent. Ting-Lu and Dondozo can be a huge pain to defensive mons which would otherwise check Eternatus and Arceus-Fire such as Dialga-Origin. Normalize should be Poisoned and Tidy Up deals with the odd few sets that also run Substitute.

Weakness: No Heal Bell due to improofing issues, weak to Rain teams, slightly annoyed by Growth Arceus-Fire but absolutely not an unwinnable matchup. No Ghost-type may be a problem, however I have not found myself horribly bothered by this. Weak to Trick, but also not an unwinnable matchup and Arceus-Fire can optionally run Flame Plate to counteract this.


The only reason I hadn't laddered higher is because it's hard to find any damn games at that high ELO. This took several days for me. I predict I can get to mid-1600s with it, but felt like submitting sooner since I want to take a brief break from BH and sample submissions would likely be closed by the time I come back. But the team itself beat Onyx Onix, Soul Dew Latias, LuciShrimp, Slightly Angry Kevin, amnael, and a few other 1400s-1500s rated accounts.
:arceus: Fireceus is a great mon, but what makes it truly great is it not being passive while simultaneously threatening FC walls. Tidy Up is severely underrated solely for its ability to remove enemy Substitutes. At +1 Attack, Arceus can get 2HKOs or OHKOs on a shockingly high amount of the meta. The main problem you will encounter using it is Imposter as you can not risk Fireceus being Poisoned.

Alternate Options: Heavy-Duty Boots can be used if you find Stealth Rock to be an issue, but I generally don't and can typically handle hazard removal fine without it. Not being Paralyzed or haxed is far more valuable to you. Flame Plate provides a modest buff to V-create plus the immunity to Trick. Tera Ghost is an alternate viable Tera Type that allows for a different generic defensive typing that lacks the Steel-type weakness in trade for a Ghost- and Dark-type one.

Improof: Eternatus, Slaking in a pinch.

:eternatus: Eternatus is a genuinely great mon hindered by a lack of particularly great sets. Unfortunately, its typing does it no favors either. But Base 130 Speed and a huge amount of bulk with great Special Attack allow it to remain a constant threat. This set is more or less a theorymon that I made to find viable SetPedia sets, but this paid off rather handsomely. Mold Breaker allows it to be very, very versatile. Especially with Toxic, as Toxic gets --- accuracy with Poison-types while Eternatus can reliably improof Arceus.

  • Good as Gold, Magic Bounce, and Purifying Salt are vulnerable to Toxic.
  • Strength Sap bypasses Good as Gold, Magic Bounce, and... maybe Liquid Ooze.
  • Torch Song bypasses Well-Baked Body, which is notable as WBB Zacian-C typically counters Eternatus.
  • Both Torch Song and Dragon Energy bypass Ice Scales.
However, it finds itself annoyed by RegenVest Goodra-Hisui and Dialga-Origin due to it having trouble with beating them without the use of Terastal, but the option is there should the need arise. Imposter is a bigger worry due to Eternatus having a natural Poison immunity and it likes to try and force out Eternatus to prevent it from snowballing.

Note: Never go to +2 Special Attack on Eternatus while the opponent has an active Chansey or Blissey. Your improof risks getting overrun.

Alternate Options: Covert Cloak can be used on Eternatus, however Leftovers (Black Sludge stops working on Terastallized Pokemon) synergizes better with Dragon Energy. Moveset should not be changed or Eternatus loses significant effectiveness. Tera Type can be Fairy if you want a defensive Tera Type rather than an offensive one.

Improof: Blissey, Ting-Lu in a pinch.

:blissey: It's Imposter. Use it to scout, use it to win against certain offensive matchups, but most importantly use it to PP stall if you cannot reasonably win through offensive tactics. As for the moveset itself, it is solely for improofing Eternatus and nothing else. Amnesia is there to allow Blissey to avoid getting overrun by Torch Song. Jungle Healing cures Toxic. Low Attack means enemy Imposter doesn't heal at all. Salt Cure is there to have passive damage against both Imposter and any switch-ins.

Alternate Options: Do not use Choice Scarf on this set. Blissey needs Covert Cloak. But Eviolite Chansey is acceptable here. The major change I'd say is viable here is Ruination or Comeuppance over Salt Cure if you're worried about an enemy Covert Cloak Blissey. Haze and other means of removing Torch Song boosts are likely unviable as they cause Blissey to be too heavily pressured especially as Blissey always underspeeds Eternatus. It is possible you could run Heal Bell over Jungle Healing to better support the party at the cost of a slightly dodgier improof.

Improof: N/A

:ting-lu: Ting-Lu is here over Dialga or Goodra as the team would otherwise be too weak to Ground-type attacks. It does its job fine as Knock and Salt Cure is very hard to wall on the same set and it readily takes on most special attackers besides Flutter Mane and Enamorus. It's not a particularly inspired set, but it does its job and it does it well for this team, providing an essential Nuzzle and Prankster immunity. Ting-Lu should prioritize Knocking Off items at any point, and Salt Cure any switch-ins. Salt Cure as mentioned is also great for harassing defensive sets that otherwise get in the way of the rest of your party.

Alternate Options: Ability Shield is usable if you're super afraid of Normalize Entrainment, but Toxic on Eternatus or Arceus can still hit Flutter Mane and enemy Arceus through Normalize. Tera Type should not be changed, and while the moveset can be changed, I do not particularly have any suggestions. Both Ting-Lu and Dondozo can change up their moves if you desire, however they work perfectly fine as is.

Improof: Knock Off the enemy Imposter's item and Salt Cure them to force them out. Eternatus can improof in an emergency as Toxic severely threatens enemy Imposter.

:slaking: Slaking is the late game cleaner, but he can work as a breaker in some cases too. However you should be skittish with it especially given that it does not like the presence of Imposter and needs to wait for an opportune time to come in. Magic Guard provides some extremely useful immunities with hazards, status, and Salt Cure. It also is immune to Rocky Helmet. Unfortunately, due to the status immunity, this means a Poisoned Imposter isn't going to be threatened coming in unless you Terastallize. Rock Tera Type is generally an ass type, but the Fire resistance is very useful in some non-Imposter matchups and it resists Normal too.

As an important note, while it seems counterintuitive, you should focus on removing hazards with Arceus over Slaking as your team is significantly handicapped if Slaking even risks being crippled or knocked out. Slaking is best used only after you know what exactly your opponent has in a given matchup. Or if Imposter is down, then scout to see what mon your opponent brings in on Slaking once you set up with it.

Alternate Options: Wide Lens is an obvious one, but Life Orb gives more power that's less consistent. This LO power has won me games though so I still use it personally. Morning Sun can be used in favor of Sap, but Slaking generally wants the PP. Victory Dance is usable, however Slaking generally appreciates being able to remove hazards and Substitute.

Improof: Terastal, PP stalling with Strength Sap if needed. Parting Shot spam can work in an emergency. Just because Slaking can self-improof, doesn't mean it should, and you should try to get Imposter down over time or at the very least put it in a disadvantageous position so it thinks twice before coming on in. Slaking generally always wants to come in late game or if the need to break something is absolutely necessary to avoid dealing with Imposter directly. Bringing Slaking in on mons without pivot moves gives Imposter less breathing room especially if it risks coming in as +0 on you Tidying Up.

Slaking is genuinely not hard to use despite the precarious improof. Imposter doesn't get full accuracy Population Bomb and its rather easy to annoy out with Eternatus and Dondozo unless you get extremely unlucky. That being said, some opponents may only use Imposter to PP stall you and this is another reason to avoid bringing out Slaking early until you have a gameplan which results in it getting at least one KO before switching out. Slaking is almost always going to put in work even despite this Imposter problem especially as it tanks almost everything extremely well and can force out certain mons with Strength Sap before setting up.

:dondozo: Dondozo is a fairly typical Prankster. It's likely you've already used this thing before given its bulk and the necessity to have a fat physical mon on your teams. This Dondozo is rather passive but Ceaseless Edge makes it extremely annoying to deal with as the opponent needs to focus on bringing out hazard removal which can give you a momentum advantage, especially if their removal doesn't like one of the other party members. Prank Parting Shot is very valuable in this metagame as Dondozo does not particularly mind Ting-Lu switch-ins and this team is not super afraid of Hoopa-U. Dondozo should mostly be used reactively, but if the game stalls at all you can start aggressively setting up Ceaseless Edge to try and force the aforementioned momentum advantage.

Alternate Options: Rocky Helmet is an option, but not for improofing Slaking as its immune to Rocky Helmet damage via Magic Guard. Only use Rocky Helmet if you think its worthwhile. Morning Sun is an option over Shore Up, but I specifically chose Shore Up to avoid Rain reducing Dondozo's healing. Tera Type is not too important, use Ground or whatever type you feel is necessary; Dondozo is unlikely to change any matchups as a result of Terastal.

Improof: Arceus removes hazards and forces Imposter out at the threat of Toxic. Ting-Lu prevents Parting Shot from letting Imposter gain momentum and the threat of 1/4HP Salt Cure + Knock Off forces Imposter out as well. Slaking is usable but not advised as an improof.

Life's Epilogue by Onyx Onix 7
[Hyper Offense - Destiny Bond Spam + Choice Scarf Zacian-Crowned]

The following team is a hyper-offense build I originally created for the ghosting tour, though we eventually decided to bring rain instead. The team is built around powerful mixed attackers like Arceus Grass and Rayquza to shatter most defensive cores and suicide Destiny Bond users to quickly restrict offensive counterplay options. Scarf Zacian-C and Carkol round out the rest of the build by offering some form of a defensive backbone and the ability to revenge-kill fast threats like Miriadon and opposing Zacian.

Tips on how to play:

* Zacian-C is typically the best lead and midground due to its ability to scare out offensive pokemon and force in exploitable walls
* Save Tera-Fire for Arceus grass so it can 1 v 1 Imposter Chansey and so it has its Fire STAB
* Rayquaza, Arceus, and Zacian are Imposter Proofed by Carkol
* Against bulky Quiver Dance Pokemon Eternatus usually can win the 1 v 1 with the combination of Destiny bond and its ability to crit through Quiver Dance boosts


*Fur Coat Moltres and Fur Coat Arceus Fire can be tricky to break through for this team
* Bulky Victory Dance and Quiver Dance users can sweep the team if one isn't careful to preserve Groudon or Eternatus
* Random Flip Turns
* Primordial Sea Corviknight

Ladder Peak / Replays;

While I, unfortunately, don't have a screenshot of how far I climbed on the ladder, I managed to easily make it into the high 1600s twice with HO. Had I continued laddering, I'm sure I could've made it to first place on the ladder. I likely won’t have the time to play a bunch more games to make that happen in the near future. So that will have to be good enough to demonstrate effectiveness.
Last edited:

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Hi, am currently playing through the actual game so will likely be inactive in BH for a few days, however thought i'd list the things that have changed since last gen.
Buffs/Nerfs from Generation 8
:abomasnow: Snow Warning now summons Snow instead of Hail. Snow has replaced hail, and gives 1.5x Defense to Ice-types when active.
that's the only buff lol
:cresselia: -10 Defense & Special Defense
:greninja-ash: BST now same as base form due to Battle Bond rework.
:zacian: -10 Attack
-20 Attack
:zamazenta: -10 Attack
:zamazenta-crowned: -10 Attack, -5 Defense & Special Defense
:scyther: Kleavor has -5 Attack, +5 Special Defense
:calyrex-ice: Glacial Lance now 120BP
:urshifu: Wicked Blow now 75BP (so effective 112.5 after crit)
:rillaboom: Grassy Glide now 60BP 55BP
:chansey: Soft-Boiled, Recover, Milk Drink, Slack Off, Roost, Rest all 5PP base (so 8 after PP max/on showdown)
:zacian-crowned: Intrepid Sword now activates once per battle
:zamazenta-crowned: Dauntless Shield now activates once per battle
:cinderace: Protean/Libero now activate once per switch-in
Battle Bond now grants +1 Attack, Special Attack and Speed on KOing a target.
Zoroark-Hisui's BST now matches regular Zoroark's (relative to PLA, -5 SpA and Spe for +5 HP and Atk )
:zoroark: Bitter Malice is 75BP and always drops target's Attack.
:braviary: Esper Wing is 80BP, gives the user +1 Speed and has a higher crit rate.
:sneasel: Dire Claw is 80BP and has a 50% chance to inflict Poison, Paralysis or Sleep.
:stantler: Psyshield Bash is 70BP and always raises the user's Defense.
:scyther: Stone Axe is 65BP, 90% Accuracy and sets Stealth Rock.
:tornadus::thundurus::landorus: Storm moves are all 100BP with 80% accuracy, and have a secondary effect - Springtide drops Attack with 30% chance, Bleakwind drops Speed with 30% chance, Wildbolt paralyses with 20% chance, Sandsear burns with 20% chance.
:azelf: Mystical power is 70BP, 90% accuracy and always raises the user's Special Attack.
:arcanine: Raging Fury is Fire-type Outrage.
:basculin: Wave Crash is Water-type Brave Bird.
:electrode: Chloroblast is a Grass-type Mind Blown with 95% Accuracy.
:avalugg: Mountain Gale is 100BP, 85% Accuracy and has a 30% Flinch chance.
:lilligant: Victory Dance boosts Attack, Defense and Speed.
:ursaring: Headlong Rush is Ground-type Close Combat.
:qwilfish: Barb Barrage is 60BP, has a 50% poison rate and damage doubles if the target is poisoned.
:goodra: Shelter is Iron Defense.
:decidueye: Triple Arrows is 90BP and has higher crit rate, 50% chance to drop target's Defense and 30% flinch.
:typhlosion: Infernal Parade is 60BP and has a 30% chance to inflict burn. Damage is doubled if the target has any status.
:samurott: Ceaseless Edge is 65BP, 90% Accuracy and sets Spikes.
:cresselia: Lunar Blessing is Jungle Healing but less PP.
:manaphy: Take Heart is Calm Mind + Refresh.
Last edited:

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
How broken is a core of double Prankster-Revival Blessing-Lunar Dance? That looks like infinite PP stalling to me as long as it's not interrupted.
Revival Blessing might get quickbanned. It only has 1PP, so would require Leppa Berry + Recycle to be infinite on Prankster mons, however Imposter is the problem as it gets infinite from copying something (and I haven't tested if it drags the PP up to 5 or not). Still not implemented so only time will tell.
Last edited:
After a day of laddering these are my first thoughts of the tier:

-It started off as a Tera-Fire-Vcreate spam fest featuring Orichalcum Zacian-C, but over the day alone it already got a lot weaker in my opinion. I am still not sure that keeping Orichalcum is a good idea though, the wallbreaking potential is just a little too much in my opinion.

-Cramorant may be infuriating to play around but ironically it's one of the few things that keeps the super hard hitting metagame in check at the moment. Zacian cannot just freely spam V-Create, else it runs the risk of eating the para which makes it substantially weaker, especially in Zacian dittos.

-Population Bomb is absolutely ridiculous. I have been running a Magic Guard Arceus-Normal with a Wide Lens, giving each hit a 99% chance to connect while also invalidating Rocky Helmet counters. I've also added Shell Smash into the kit, and if it gets going it's honestly ridiculous how much power that move has,especially if being allowed to set up near freely with a Shed Tail pivot. Even without boosting, an Arceus firing off an effective 300BP move is no bueno, not to mention the potential this move has on -ate mons.

-Shed Tail seems interesting. Again, with the current power level of the meta, it's a solid way to keep some semblance of defense going. I do however believe that it will become a problem once the powerlevel inevitably lowers a bit.

-Prankster Haze feels almost required. A lot of setup answers got removed from the game, I don't think I need to elaborate further on this one.

-Ting-Lu feels amazing. I like bulky teams, and it is a powerful stopping tool in all-out offense. The typing is also really good, giving it immunites to Prankster and Nuzzle.

-Please get that stupid shadow horse out of my metagame, thanks.
Last edited:


فلسطين حرة
is a Tiering Contributor
Immediate thoughts:
  • Calyrex-Shadow: Broken as expected. Can elect to run Normalize Entrainment (150 base speed, mind you), Tera Fairy Pixilate to finesse Darks, or Adapt/that SpDef lowering ability.
  • Flutter Mane: Will almost certainly get nuked once Caly-S inevitably gets booted for very similar reasons.
  • Zacian-Crowned: Still feels dumb even after the -20 nerf to its base Atk, and it seems like all of the new toys kinda offset this nerf. Some of the abilities/moves it abuses would probably need to go first, though. Time will tell. Gorilla Tactics, Sword of Ruin, Mold Breaker, Orichalcum Pulse, Pixilate, and others I'm likely leaving out are all pretty strong on it.
  • Population Bomb: Incredibly absurd move even with the vulnerability to Helmet.
  • Cramorant-Gorging: Uncompetitive for the same reasons it was in Gen 8/NDBH.
  • Terastallizing: Doesn't seem immediately problematic, so it may be fine for now; I actually kinda like it. May or may not be too strong when the meta stabilizes. Definitely nowhere near as bad as Dmax was, though.
  • Shell Smash/Belly Drum: Absurd for the same reasons it was in BH7, BH8, and NDBH. Facilitates brainless setup spam tactics, and it doesn't help that a lot of setup countermeasures have been nerfed/revoked.
  • Shed Tail: Very good on HO especially with Smash/Drum around. Will likely need to go once meta stabilizes a bit. The paste in Nihilslave's post above is very, very strong; I used it with my own adjustments (Sash + Astral on Caly-S, PixiSpeed BD Zac-C, FC on the Ghostceus with plot + fighting coverage, PH Slaking). Can win games on the spot if your move fails to break the incoming mon's sub.
  • Arceus + Judgment: Glad to have Arc & friends back in. Very cool mon and a major reason why I always enjoyed NDBH. Huge fan of this thing's versatility. Also glad to have Plate + Judgment back--was another thing I very much missed in BH8.
  • Orichalcum Pulse: Undecided so far. Hard to tell if the ability is dumb or just Zacian-C. FC Waterceus/Dondozo, PSea Steelceus/ZZC seem to handle most abusers.
  • Additional notes: lack of stuff like Moongeist Beam/Sunsteel helps FurScales users. Recovery nerfs suck, though, so I can see more offensive FurScales users, with Sap as the recover move, becoming more common (though IMO they were always very good). As mentioned, lack of Spectral and Core makes PH wincons be a pain in the ass to deal with.

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
i have played a few games, what i've found:
  • cram is popular despite not actually being in the game lol (it's not supposed to be usable)
  • pixibomb (pixilate + population bomb) zac-c practically mandates a helmet unaware/prank resist with cgas to not instantly lose it. i think zacian might be the problem here, just because gtactics + band with the option to tera into STAB v-create or make gigaton a nuke exists.
  • poison healers have scattered use, the average prankster mon doesn't have room for worry seed so they can be annoying but are manageable.
  • shed tail enables drum/smashspam far too easily. giving free switches from ultrafats to absolute demons is not OK, especially when you can just regen off the damage completely free of charge. frankly, the lack of topsy and spectral means both are problematic on their own. all 3 of these should be banned IMO
  • caly-s is stupid busted. normalize sets are obnoxious and can just instawin certain matchups and gen 9's donations in judgement and beads of ruin also help. hell, even just running specs adapt rips shit.
  • the new dragons are, ok i guess? miraidon is arguably just worse etern but compensates with 5 base speed, koraidon i haven't seen but likely has a niche with some technician stuff. blue flare being absent really hurts etern (and by extension mirai)'s ability to threaten zac-c which is really important, fire blast just doesn't cut it.
  • the likelihood is you're either using tera to make up for a bad matchup by turning something into an ultrafat (eg. turn your darkceus into steelceus if you need to check zac-c), but predominantly on nukes to give them free STAB on coverage or make existing STABs complete overkill.
  • population bomb has so far (as far as i can tell) been used exclusively on zac-c. anything else needs pads + -ate or mgolo kante + be normal type to actually use it well, which i don't think has any other current candidates. zac-c will likely be banned over pop for this reason unless something major crops up.
  • Flutter Mane is a big misdreavus? it has a good STAB combo but is frail as shit. unless i'm severely missing something i don't think it's an issue.
tl:dr cramorant isn't supposed to exist, all of caly/zac/smash/drum/possibly shed tail are broken
also revival blessing is most likely busted when the server actually implements it

drampa's grandpa

benign auto-cannibal
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Population Bomb
The Move, The Mouse, The Legend

In this post I will be comparing Population Bomb to other Normal type moves. Obviously I will be ignoring Status and Special moves in this comparison.

To start I need to figure out what exactly I should expect when I click Population Bomb. To quote myself from another thread Population Bomb has a

10% chance to miss completely
9% chance to hit exactly once
8.1% chance to hit exactly twice
7.29% chance to hit exactly 3 times
6.561% chance to hit exactly 4 times
5.9049% chance to hit exactly 5 times
5.31441% chance to hit exactly 6 times
4.782969% chance to hit exactly 7 times
4.3046721% chance to hit exactly 8 times
3.87420489% chance to hit exactly 9 times
34.86784401% chance to hit exactly 10 times

which is also

90% chance to hit once or more - 20 BP
81% chance to hit twice or more - 40 BP
72.9% chance to hit 3 times or more - 60 BP
65.61% chance to hit 4 times or more - 80 BP
59.049% chance to hit 5 times or more - 100 BP
53.1441% chance to hit 6 times or more - 120 BP
47.82969% chance to hit 7 times or more - 140 BP
43.046721% chance to hit 8 times or more - 160 BP
38.7420489% chance to hit 9 times or more - 180 BP
34.86784401% chance to hit 10 times - 200 BP

On average (that is to say the mean) you will hit 6.57881348 times for 131.5762696 BP. Obviously you will never actually hit this amount exactly, but it's a reasonable to that you'll fall somewhere close to that usually. That is about 6 or 7 out of 10 hits.

I have ignored critical hits for all of this. Crits increase your average hit by the same amount as usual, they just space it out differently when you use Population Bomb.

Extreme Speed - 80 BP, +2 priority
Double-Edge - 120 BP, recoil
Hyper Drill - 100 BP, breaks protection
Explosion - 250 BP, self-ko
Facade - 70 BP, doubles when statused

Extreme Speed will always potentially be worth it over a non-priority move. These moves are not comparable.
Double-Edge is a little weaker than you typically expect Population Bomb to be and has recoil to boot. Not worth it.
Hyper Drill is only 100 BP which Population Bomb has an above 50% chance to match, an average BP well above, and a maximum BP which is double. I would not run Hyper Drill.
Explosion is Explosion. It's still stronger than a Maximum hit Population Bomb without Technician, and the self-KO is something we've learned to abuse where possible. This is still a good move, and much more reliable than Population Bomb.
Facade is more reliable than Population Bomb, and on anything with Poison Heal (say, Slaking) is clearly the better option, as those Pokemon cannot afford Punching Gloves. However its use is limited to stuff that knows it will be statused.
Stuff that are incredibly dumb rn:
- Cramorant Gorging: So this thing is fsr freed, and while yes it on theory helps keep Caly-S and Zac-C under control this is by far the most uncompetitive and unfun thing to deal with in the meta for sure.
- Revival Blessing: Not even implemented rn but we all know what it does
- Moody: RNG machine, in theory you can run something like Imprison Haze Power Trip and try to cheese. I don't think its remotely broken like some other stuff but at the same time its also one of the many things mandating Prank Haze.

Stuff that are very dumb but not as much:
- Belly Drum: In theory again this is more manageable because no Moldy moves so stuff like FC and Unaware have an easier time but in reality if you get drummed on without your FC/Unaware or your Prank out you lose a mon, fun.
- Terastalize: Its super similar to Dynamax where you don't actually know what type they can Terastalize to. In a defending scenario you can often get bopped because opponent Tera and has SE coverage that otherwise would not have broken through. On the contrary you could get your offensive breaker completely crippled because opponent Tera their defensive mon into another type and lives a hit to Nuzzle/Knock/whatever you.
- Last Respects: Literally a move that rewards you for either playing worse or running something like Gambit/Explosion spam.
- Rage Fist: Its Last Respects but instead of getting your team fainted you just have to switch into some moves.
- Orichalcum Pulse: Think a lot of people have shared calcs of this + V-create blowing past Fur Coat resists. Very annoying when it really pressures a PSea user (even if PSea doesnt check it helps neutralize for double switch)

Stuff that are dumb:
- Population Bomb: The best counterplay is obviously Helmet which instantly KOs but forcing Helmet means no Leftovers which is super important to preserve recover PP
- Shell Smash: We all know what this does. Premier setup move.
- Gorilla Tactics: Straight up premier offensive ability for the physical mons, completely outclasses the already strong Protean which is hilarious. Though I haven't ran into this much because most Zacians are Pixilate.

Stuff that are probably dumb but haven't really seen and are also hard to evaluate rn or are just tame compared to above:
- Contrary: Theoretically Unaware and Fur Scales are better and with the removal of Moongeist Beam you have more options to pick mons that actually resist the common Contrary moves. Also not a whole lot of strong mixed attackers to fully abuse Contrary with V-create. But its still free 130+ BP moves without Spectral or even Topsy, so you never get punished for clicking the move ignoring Imposter.
- Ruin: They basically outclass all other offensive damage increasing abilities while not Choice-locking (Gorilla) or increasing improof difficulties (old ISword). There is a damage decrease but its the same as Adapt still so...
- Fillet Away: Discount Shell Smash
- Lumina Crash: Practically mandates a Dark-type defensively, main abuser is obv Caly-S but something like Mewtwo can also abuse quite well. Reasonably strong move that eases predictions making it super spammable if a team lacks a Dark.
- Gigaton Hammer: So this move has one main abuser that also abuses n other stuff so its hard to tell if this move is actually very incredible or not.
Stuff that IMO are actually borderline ok atm or just need to be checked after all the other stuff get banned first.
- Calyrex-Shadow: Despite how absurdly dumb this mon is, I think it is currently more broken because of stuff like Tera, Lumina Crash, and maybe Beads. Mandating Dark-types isn't as egregious (despite there only being like 2 actually viable Dark-types and then some other niche ones) esp if Lumina Crash gets booted. Still incredibly dominating with its speed tier, power, and ease of use with self improof so definitely one of the borderline ones later on.
- Zacian-Crowned: Zac-C 20 atk nerf is actually noticeable sometimes and while Zacian currently is regarded as broken by many, almost all of the above listed stuff can be abused by it, which means if all those things get banned Zacian-C might actually be more or less reasonable. (Also restricted Zac-c looks shit)
- Court Change: This move actually helps keep hazard stack in check which is so important when chip damage is immensely good even without offensive pressure.
- Slaking: Slaking is, IMO, more broken by itself than something like Zacian-C. Zacian-C is only broken because of all the tools it can abuse with. Slaking is straight up busted with 1 set. High physical bulk + typing + Victory Dance makes it practically impossible to OHKO, and after a Victory Dance it pretty much is unrevengekillable since it 2HKOs all the offensive stuff while they fail to OHKO back. Poison Heal makes it impossible to punish properly because lack of good trapping, lack of Core (which did damage on top of poison damage), and lack of weaknesses, making Zama-C with fighting STAB the only good reliable answer. Meanwhile it pretty much switches in for free against the rest of the defensive mons and proceeds to make progress.

Some observations:
- Dondozo is great, near Giratina levels of physical bulk with the desirable Water-typing makes this a much welcome check to Zacian-C and Orichalcum. Almost always worth using over Waterceus.
- Ting-Lu is really bulky, I haven't used it yet (been using Darkceus instead) but there are multiple occasions where I wanted the Electric immunity to deal with the Hadrons on ladder. Advantage of Darkceus is noticeably more SpD.
- Zamazenta-C is, despite nerfed, still amazing. Best answer to Slaking, great PSea user, and has reasonable offensive power with Combat Torque.
- Dialga-O seems interesting with the increased SpD but I can't see myself running this over Zama-C. It lost some of its tools in Doom Desire, Anchor Shot, and Core Enforcer so it feels awkward in moveslots and often just loses to stuff like Slaking which sucks.
- Haven't seen like any Eternatus, losing Core is somewhat annoying but I think it can run a pretty good Contrary set. Defensive purpose is unknown though typing kinda doesn't offer much this meta.
- Giratina loses to every single offensive threat. Best you can do is trying to do something against Slaking since you can somewhat just sit in front of it. Problem is you need to run very specific techs (stuff like partial trapping + ability removal, trick pecha)
- Haven't seen any Groudons. Kyogre has a very hostile meta towards it so can't imagine it being very useable. Rayquaza might be interesting because its one of the few strong mixed offensive mons. Its only set rn is probably Contrary though, but outspeeding the unboosted meta at +1 is very nice on paper.
- Palkia seems to be a pretty good Orichalcum check, but it loses to Magical Torque from Zac-C which blows.
- Koraidon seems very mediocre. Miraidon has some offensive potency but I think Etern gives it a lot of competition.
- Flutter Mane doesn't seem very amazing, it struggles to actually force switches outside of Norm but thats not a set because you can't abuse your Fairy STAB. Rked by the two best mons in the meta
- Haven't seen any of the lower BST niche defensive mons at all.
- Poison Heal is completely busted, not actually surprised if it warrants a suspect at all, good counterplay is severely lacking with no trapping no core no spectral no topsy. I have seen some Toxic Orb Imposters and I think Lucky Punch is also justifiable.
- Protean/Libero look pretty balanced and pretty interesting. Theres probably a lot of room to play with them, Choice sets are the most obvious, but I can see some other sets like setup utilize the only switching types once mechanic to their advantage.
- Hazard meta seems wild with Stone Axe Ceaseless Edge + Tidy Up Mortal Spin Court Change.
- 8 pp Recover sucks, chip damage becomes so important and ways to negate them are incredibly good, so stuff like Leftovers, HDB, PH, Regen are all desirable. Running double recovery is legit with stuff like Recover + Sap or even Jungle + Sap on some more offensive utility stuff.
- With Prank Haze being the only consistent setup check Unaware becomes interesting since it compressed FurScales in one against setup and can ignore opposing defensive boosts from QD and VD.
- Since there isn't actually anything to punish opposing setup (no Spec no Topsy) status is incredible, stuff like Nuzzle and Prank Glare are very good, though Glare competes with other utility options like DBond.
- Heal Bell is actually good utility if you are running Caly and Zac and they don't have a way around Cram themselves (stuff like Electric Libero, Electric Tera, Jungle Healing, Purifying Salts).
- Apart from Cram whos not supposed to be in theres another mon that got banned from Gen 8 thats currently bugged to be available that might be decent (not cram level though)...
Last edited:
I had great success with this mon in my team so far:

Lavalugg (Avalugg) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Blazing Torque
- Strength Sap
- U-turn
- Worry Seed

Fire is a surprisingly good defensive typing in early meta, being neutral to many attacks and resistant to fire (v-create), steel and fairy. It is a hard stop to basically all Zacian and Darm-Z-G sets, to Zamazenta, to Koraidon and to other physical attackers besides Palafin and some Shell Smash power trip users, and a check to PH Slaking. Of course it requires some hazard control and can be annoying to switch in when not terastallyzed yet, but it puts in a ton of work for my team.
Last edited:
posting team for meta development:

team is called "wisp the zamac" because in theory you do that and then slaking beats every team (you can also just ghost tera)
in practice I didn't run into any zamacs so slaking won anyway. you could run shadow sneak/headlong rush instead.
most common terra for me was zamac

rage fist is very obviously in need of a ban
Last edited:
Been playing a bit of bh lately, and I think a few things stand out.

1. Shell Smash w/o very good set-up control is really tough to deal with. Prankster pokemon can kind of do it, but the boosting abilities which you can stack with shell smash are extremely strong this generation, so I'm not sure how one deals with it. Similarly, with judgement being around, improofing these broken breakers because quite simple.

2. Terastalize seems extremely uncompetitive to me. In a sense, it's almost like a crystal-free mutliple use z-move. It's nearly impossible to predict, it will most likely result in you losing a pokemon, before you can defensively terra, and the user still has that type to condent with after. This practically mandates a defensive tera, or countering with an offensive terra of your own. To me, it also makes things quite hard to evaluate, as anything that is borderline broken, is immedietly pushed over the edge by terra.

3. I think some of the new moves, like rage fist, lumina crash, gigaton hammer, etc seems extremely strong / broken right now.

Also, if you notice the first post, we have a new banned now! Thank you Varrio for yet again an incredible logo for our metagame :).
Meta observations, none of which should be new to you:

* Due to the removal of Spectral Thief and Core Enforcer, setup control is a lot tougher than it was in Gen 8. Also, being able to bp subs with shed tail, and double the hp of normal subs by the way, is pretty crazy and means that status moves become a lot harder to use. All of this combines to make setup way stronger, though the one saving grace is that Arceus's bulk is crazy and can usually take any single neutral hit at +2. Now whether it can do anything back is another question.

* Population Bomb is really dumb, and you can even combine it with King's Rock to get an almost 100% flinch chance if you like cheese. I really like running it with Aerilate Landorus-T, as it has stab headlong rush to hit all the steels that would come in otherwise. Its bulk is bad and it's slow, but if it can get in for free and click PB, it can 2hKO neutral Arceus forms with only 6 hits. I also experimented with running Galvanize PB on Regieleki with Coil and King's Rock, but the results weren't as good because of Ting Lu being everywhere. The set I tried Coil / PB / Glacial Lance / DESTINY Bond. It's probably pretty good with the right support actually.
* Calyrex-S is probably still banworthy even though we have Arceus-Dark and Ting-Lu and Meloetta, all three of which can blank its standard breaking or Entrainment sets. They probably just lose to Electrify sets though. Ability shield helps against Entrainment too, but it can be knocked off.
* Ting Lu and Dondozo are great new physical walls, especially Dondozo now that the most powerful physical electric moves have recoil and only 120 bp.
* Having regenvest users that can set hazards is pretty wild, and having Regenvest users that can spin them away while dealing Poison chip is just as nuts. I made space for Heal Bell to alleviate this problem.
*I haven't seen Terra as a serious issue, because from what I've seen, you lose both your original types. (could be wrong about this, correct me if I am.) The most pressing issue is being able to click V-Create and get it with STAB and Fire-Type's resistances, especially when combined with orichalcum pulse, but that's more of an issue with V-Create and Pulse than Terra.

I think both Shed Tail and Poison Heal should be the first things to hit the chopping block, though Caly-s isn't too far behind.
My thoughts after playing some games of gen 9 BH:

In general, I like the meta more than Gen8 BH actually.

  • Zacian-C is very strong, but it can be handled defensively. I don't think it needs to go, but giving Gorilla Tactics and maybe Blades of Ruin a check might be good. Gigaton hammer is a nuke, but also a momentum sink, especially on choiced sets, as Zacian is forced to switch out or to struggle. Even if it kills something, the opponent gets a guaranteed free turn afterwards and can even set up with a mon that usually would lose to Zacian. In that sense it essentially is like Truant.
  • Calyrex-S probably is banworthy as it is just too fast and powerful. All the fat darks can be caught off-guard by a pixilated Boomburst; its Entrainment set is not that problematic.
  • Arceus-Ghost. I think Arceus's Entrainment set is a lot more annoying than Calyrex's, for the simple reason that its Spooky Plate cannot be removed in any way, which is a common way to disable Entrainment sets. Because of Arceus-Ghost, I am running a Spooky Plate on my imposter chansey these days. The combination of Spooky Plate plus tera-normal on chansey is actually a dead stop to any Normalize set, but if tera is used on a different mon already, it comes down to a speed tie most likely.
  • Population Bomb: Honestly, from what I have seen, this is more of a noob trap than an actual threat. Its user dies to Rocky Helmet or has to either dedicate their ability slot or their item slot to avoid that cruel fate - and then one should ask why not use a different move that does not require an item or ability solely to avoid Rocky Helmet recoil? Maybe there are some genuinly threatening sets I haven't seen on ladder yet. I have seen pixilate on Zacian-C, some flinchers with King's Rock, even Galvanize, but they were unable to break through my fur coat mon or just died to its Rocky Helmet.
  • Poison Heal/Slaking: Quickban ASAP. It is the most broken thing right now. With Core Enforcer and (prankster) Tipsy Turvy gone, there is no defensive counterplay outside of a well-timed Ddestiny Bond. Any attempt to Worry Seed, to phaze or to Entrainment it is just blocked by Taunt. Imposter does not check either unless it is Toxic Orb, which means it would lose to Normalize sets. Banded Gorilla Tactics Zacian-C has a chance to OHKO Slaking even at +1 Def with its Gigaton Hammer and steel tera while being an actual switchin into a Facade, but that's it.
  • Rage Fist needs to go ASAP too. It becomes ridiculously strong after a few hits and is part of why Slaking is so broken. I doubt that banning Rage Fist solves the issue of Slaking being broken though. When that move reaches hundreds of BP, it becomes impossible to handle and breaks even through the most bulky mons out there.
  • Shed Tail is annoying to deal with, probably it is worth to suspect it? It is mainly an issue when it comes off a mon like Chansey or someone else with a massive HP stat.
  • Tera: Actually I think this is fine. While it has the potential of making offensive threats even more powerful, it also has a lot of defensive potential as it can make mons with great defensive stats that were held back by their typing actually interesting, worthwile picks - such as the Avalugg I posted above.
  • Set-Up: Honestly, I think the issue here are less set-up moves by themselves, and much more the moves Power Trip/Stored Power. Especially these days with the mold breaker moves gone, Unaware and FurScales actually are decent ways to handle set-up, despite Spectral Thief being gone. Stored Power/Power Trip however become so powerful when backed up by a simple Shell Smash or two that they just kill any unaware mon not immune to them. The issue is comparable to Rage Fist, which also breaks through checks and counters with its sheer BP, rendering Unaware and Fur Coat useless. I would quite like to see a meta without these two moves...
Last edited:


My fate is a haunted curse!
is a Pre-Contributor
Gonna give my thoughts on the gen 9 metagame:

- Rage fist is just ridiculous and needs to go soon as possible. Even just one hit can make this move insanely hard to switch and constrains building to an immense degree when you think about slaking using this. Not to mention that hazards on switchin also boost its base damage, meaning you're effectively punishing yourself for setting hazards.
- Population bomb is also insane, 10 hit triple axel after a coil. GL surviving that.
- Zac-C isn't as ridiculous as it was in gen 8, but still powerful nonetheless. On the fence about whether or not it should be restricted, but after the appropriate bans are made then we'll see its impact on the meta.
- Caly is just as ridiculous as it was in gen 8 because normalize sets, shell smash, etc. Its purely a guessing game for if you've prepared properly for almost every set it has.
- I personally consider slaking more threatening than zac-c because ph is really really good with core being gone. King can just run victory dance, taunt, facade, and rage fist and effectively be unkillable.
- Shell smash and drum, do I have to say anything? Yes we have prank haze, unaware, and heart swap. However, these moves are still ridiculous because of the same reasons they got banned in gen 8 and are more powerful now because recovery moves have been nerfed heavily meaning unaware and prank mons can't stall out set up mons as easily.
- Shed tail is annoying to face, especially vs HO or BO because they can freely set up a shell smash/drum and nuke you if you're not prepared. Pray you got something to deal with that when it happens.
- Unaware is really good with the lack of mold moves, unaware + prank haze basically invalidates any set up you face.
- Bounce is still good even with attacks and abilities that can set up hazards past it. Strength sap alone makes this ability useful because sap is the best recovery move.
- Stall is still viable, not as bad as we thought it would be.
- The tera mechanic isn't as busted as I thought it would be. Really great offensive tool, mid defensive. However its the beginning of a new gen and we're just gonna have to see the impact it has when bans/adjustments are made.

Few other things I can say or point out, but these are the more important observations I got from the current metagame.


Here's a team I've been using:

This is a bulky, pivot-heavy balance that aims to soften defensive cores with status, hazards, and Knock Off before pushing through with SD Zac-C or Shift Gear OriPulse Fireceus. It is a little soft to some broken/cheese stuff, like certain forms of setup spam, Gambit + Last Respects spam, and some physical attackers, but it's generally solid and has counterplay to basically everything if you're careful. Enjoying it a lot.

Covert Cloak is awesome. Getting an immunity to Nuzzle, Ceaseless Edge, Stone Axe, Scald burns, and other random stuff like Combat Torque para, Magical Torque confusion, Mortal Spin poison, and Thunderous Kick drops is a huge amount of utility for an item. It really messes with Regenvesters who often rely on hazard setting moves + Nuzzle to make progress, and it's a great option for Imposter proofing RegenVesters too: the linked team uses Cloak on Zac-C to Improof RegeVest Meloetta. I think Zac-C in particular loves it because it can come in so safely and force out every RegenVesters, and a lot of teams rely on Nuzzle to beat it.

Ability Shield as Normalise counterplay feels awkward. It feels great being able to just slap an item on my Zama-C to beat Normalise Caly-S, but with only 8 recovery PP I really want Leftovers, and Rocky Helmet is awesome in the current meta too. I'm not sure if it's worth it, but Normalise Caly-S is so hard to beat otherwise. Magic Bounce is awkward at the moment with CEdge + StAxe being so popular, but I can see it being better once the meta slows down, people get annoyed with missing their hazard setting move, and Sap becomes more popular. Magic Bounce on Zama-C and Steelceus is a solid way to get your Slaking and Normalise check in one slot, but feels easy to take advantage of.

I'm kinda in love with Orichalcum Pulse Fireceus at the moment. It's got insane offensive presence (V-create has a solid roll to OHKO Slaking and neutral Arceus forms with Adamant and no boosting item, gets them reliably with Charcoal) and it's a solid check to Zac-C and Fairyceus (which is far rarer than it should be, very strong mon). Weather healing moves like Synthesis and Moonlight give it great survivability and aren't too exploitable by Imposter because presumably you're improofing with a PrimSea steel. With the recovery PP nerf, the 8 PP on these isn't even a drawback anymore, so they're very justifiable to run on mons that don't have Orichalcum Pulse. It's a great user of Mortal Spin because it fucks up every Poison Healer and Steel and can often push through Giratina and FC Waterceus and whoever over long games with it, especially if you also have Knock Off or something.

I want to talk about Mortal Spin a bit more actually, it's a real gamechanger. Functionally Rapid Spin that gets blocked by Steels instead of Ghosts and inflicts poison(!) instead of boosting speed. It's probably the most powerful hazard removal option in the meta currently, although being blocked by steels limits it mainly to mons like Groudon, Koraidon, Fireceus etc. 8 recovery PP makes regular poison quite powerful, and even if you don't run them out of recovers the number of free turns you get from Mortal Spin forcing recovery is insane. Love this move, crazy powerful tool for bulky offense.

Unaware isn't great against Stored Power/Power Trip, but as long as Shell Smash and Drum are legal and Sunsteel and Moongeist don't exist, it's pretty good. Arceus forms are generally the best users of the ability due to good mixed bulk, but a ton of mons can run it effectively. Tried it on Scream Tail once and it was like fine
Ability Shield as Normalise counterplay feels awkward. It feels great being able to just slap an item on my Zama-C to beat Normalise Caly-S, but with only 8 recovery PP I really want Leftovers, and Rocky Helmet is awesome in the current meta too. I'm not sure if it's worth it, but Normalise Caly-S is so hard to beat otherwise. Magic Bounce is awkward at the moment with CEdge + StAxe being so popular, but I can see it being better once the meta slows down, people get annoyed with missing their hazard setting move, and Sap becomes more popular. Magic Bounce on Zama-C and Steelceus is a solid way to get your Slaking and Normalise check in one slot, but feels easy to take advantage of.
There is also another option, which is regenvest Darkceus with Revelation Dance. This basically handles every common Caly-S set except for Specs pixilate (which I have never seen on ladder). Even Tinted Lens can barely muster the 2hKO with hazards up. Still, using your Arceus slot on Dark Arceus means you aren't running Ting-lu which is almost as good of a Specs Caly-S check, especially since it has a Volt Switch immunity. I've tried both and I like Ting-Lu a lot better, but there's definitely utility for using Darkceus.
Some announcements here! The BH Council would like to announce its first ban slate!

It's been quite apparent in this first half-week, that shell smash is quite overbearing, and essentially impossible to account for all the possible sets enabled by it. The loss in moves like spectral thief and topsy-turvy, limiting set-up control to mainly haze and heart swap further enables the shenanigans that can be pulled of with shell smash. It, paired with abilities such as simple, adaptability, tough claws, normalize Calyrex-Shadow etc. are far too overbearing on the metagame. Thus, BH council has voted to ban Shell Smash.

Additionally, we have voted to ban Rage Fist. This move on principle is ridiculous, giving the user the potential to reach 250 bp, quite quickly. On pokemon such as poison heal Slaking, and regenerator Arceus-Ghost, it becomes nigh-unswitchable, and is what enabled the potency of these two pokemon. Thus, BH council has similarly voted to ban Rage Fist. Voting results can be seen below:

XxLazzepenguinxXQuojovacityscapesTea GuzzlerMAMP
Shell Smashbanbanabstainbanban
Rage Fistbanbanabstainbanban

To give every move / mechanic / ability, etc its fair chance we'll be looking at doing 1 ban slate / week. This is a rough schedule, and we will prioritize simply making a tiering decision when we feel we've seen enough evidence to make one. Tagging Kris to implement bans (+ remove / ban darmanitan-galar-zen plz, it shouldn't be in the gen9 pokedex)
Some announcements here! The BH Council would like to announce its first ban slate!

It's been quite apparent in this first half-week, that shell smash is quite overbearing, and essentially impossible to account for all the possible sets enabled by it. The loss in moves like spectral thief and topsy-turvy, limiting set-up control to mainly haze and heart swap further enables the shenanigans that can be pulled of with shell smash. It, paired with abilities such as simple, adaptability, tough claws, normalize Calyrex-Shadow etc. are far too overbearing on the metagame. Thus, BH council has voted to ban Shell Smash.

Additionally, we have voted to ban Rage Fist. This move on principle is ridiculous, giving the user the potential to reach 250 bp, quite quickly. On pokemon such as poison heal Slaking, and regenerator Arceus-Ghost, it becomes nigh-unswitchable, and is what enabled the potency of these two pokemon. Thus, BH council has similarly voted to ban Rage Fist. Voting results can be seen below:

XxLazzepenguinxXQuojovacityscapesTea GuzzlerMAMP
Shell Smashbanbanabstainbanban
Rage Fistbanbanabstainbanban

To give every move / mechanic / ability, etc its fair chance we'll be looking at doing 1 ban slate / week. This is a rough schedule, and we will prioritize simply making a tiering decision when we feel we've seen enough evidence to make one. Tagging Kris to implement bans (+ remove / ban darmanitan-galar-zen plz, it shouldn't be in the gen9 pokedex)
While I appreciate that tiering action has been taken... why is Slaking still free? That thing has absolutely no counters.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)